Into The Work: Therapy For Empaths And Seekers
Into The Work is a podcast about the inner transformation that changes how we live, love, lead, and create.
Because healing isn't separate from the life you're trying to build.
Your relationships reveal it.
Your business reveals it.
Your purpose reveals it.
Every challenge, every season of growth, and every dream calling you forward is inviting you to become more fully yourself.
Hosted by Michelle Poverman, psychotherapist, transformational coach, and energy healer, each episode explores the deeper patterns beneath the patterns.
Together, we'll uncover the unconscious beliefs, nervous system responses, and core wounds that quietly shape our lives, while discovering how healing expands our capacity to love more deeply, lead more courageously, create more freely, and live with greater purpose.
Some weeks we'll explore entrepreneurship, visibility, leadership, and the inner work of building a business. Other weeks we'll dive into relationships, boundaries, intuition, emotional healing, and what it truly means to live an expansive life.
Because they were never separate conversations.
If you've ever felt like you're doing all the right things but something unseen keeps holding you back... if you've sensed there's a bigger version of your life waiting for you, but you can't quite reach it... you're in the right place.
This isn't just a podcast about healing.
It's a podcast about expansion.
About becoming.
About creating a life that's no longer shaped by old survival patterns, but by the truest expression of who you were always meant to be.
Welcome to Into The Work.
I'm so glad you're here.
Into The Work: Therapy For Empaths And Seekers
What It Takes to Be a Resilient Entrepreneur Part One: The Truth About How You Handle Hard Things
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Nobody talks about this part of entrepreneurship honestly enough- what happens inside you when something doesn’t work. The launch goes quiet. The pitch that gets a no. The program nobody bought. The public moment that made you want to disappear.
In this episode, Michelle takes you into the psychology of entrepreneurial setback. This is the episode that helps you finally understand what’s actually happening when you fall down in your business, and why the way you’ve been trying to fix it may be targeting the wrong wound entirely.
This is Part One of a two-part series. Part Two, How to Rise: and Who You Become in the Process, drops next week.
What You’ll Discover in This Episode
- Why entrepreneurial shame is fundamentally different from ordinary shame, and why that difference changes everything about how you heal it
- The research on what actually determines whether a public setback leads to self-destruction, self-delusion, or self-recovery
- The two distinct wounds that get activated when something doesn’t work in your business, and why conflating them keeps the healing stalled
- The four response patterns most entrepreneurs run under pressure, named as protective intelligence, not character flaws
- A guided somatic experience to help you identify which wound is louder for you in your body,
- Why naming your pattern is the first real act of resilience
Thank you for listening!
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Hey there, Michelle Pofferman here. Today, we are talking about what it takes to be a resilient entrepreneur, okay? So what does it take? We're gonna talk about the truth about how you handle hard things, and we're gonna actually break this down into,, some real insight for you into yourself because nobody's talking about this, honestly. I, I believe wholeheartedly in the mantra, you can do hard things. I tell myself that all the time. I say to myself, "You can do hard things, Michelle." I say it before I do things that feel difficult. I say it before I do things that I don't wanna do, right? There's a difference. There are things that I'm like, it's not so much that it's hard, it's I don't feel like doing it but that in itself is what's hard. So I say I don't... I can do hard things. But what we're talking about is, is much deeper than that, and I don't know that it gets talked about enough, so we're gonna break this down, and I hope it really opens you up to something within yourself. Because today, we're talking about the part where you, yes you, you built something that you freaking believed in, something you put yourself behind, you just really threw yourself into, and it doesn't work. The launch that goes quiet, the pitch that you threw yourself out there, it was so vulnerable, and you put a pitch out there, and then you got a no. The program you poured yourself into that nobody bought, right? These are all things that happen on the entrepreneurial journey. The thing you said out loud publicly, maybe a social media, wherever it was. It didn't land the way you thought it would. Maybe you were embarrassed. Maybe you shrunk That's what we're talking about. What happens next in you, right? That's what we're talking about today is what happens next. So here's what I want you to understand before we go anywhere, is that entrepreneurship will ask things of you that almost nothing else will. I'm not saying if you're listening to this and you're not an entrepreneur necessarily that, you know, you're not experiencing some of the same things. This episode will speak to you. But there is something about really, having the world on your shoulders and putting yourself out there in such a vulnerable way. I don't think there's much else that, exceeds in asking you to do the work on yourself to actually put yourself through the wringer and stand back up and do it again. And that's resiliency And one of those things that you're going to be asked, the ones that separates the people who build something that matters from the ones who stop before they even get there is this. What do you do when it doesn't work? What do you do inside yourself when it doesn't work? That's what we're addressing. So this episode is for everyone who's ever fallen down in the work. Okay. So we are talking about both the public stumbles and the private ones that you don't even tell people about. If you have ever had something not work and felt it in your body and had an experience in that, that was really hard, this is for you. And if you're in it right now, if this is something, if something right now is not working for you, you are in the middle of trying to figure out how to keep going through this. I especially want you to listen till the end. Before we get into this too much further though, I wanna start by doing something a little different, okay? I'm gonna ask you to come with me for just a moment into your body and into a specific memory, okay? So if you're driving or in a space where you can't fully drop in right now, that's completely fine. You can just listen and sort of lightly kinda do this work and see what you get. Of course, if you're driving, keep your eyes open, right? So don't get lost. For those of you who really can be present, I want you to go ahead and take a nice deep breath. And as you breathe into your body, I want you to imagine you're fully calling yourself back into the body. You're releasing all attachments to other people, places, and things. You are letting go of any energies that don't belong to you or energies that are draining you. Whatever's happening before you press play, I want you to let it all go for right now. I want you to cut all connections and energetic attachments and just trust for a moment that those things will exist okay without you. And take another deep breath. And I want you to just allow yourself to be fully present right here, right now, listening to my voice in your own body, in your own energy. And now I want you to call up a memory. I want you to think and just let it come to you. You don't have to work hard at this. See whatever comes up. It might surprise you. Whatever comes up, it might even be the smallest of the things, but for whatever reason, it, it's, it's full. I want you to ask yourself your last, uh, or most important experience that you need to bring up right now where something didn't work in your business or something didn't work where you were putting yourself out there and it triggered you. It doesn't have to be the biggest thing, but it has to feel real, okay? And I don't want you to relive it. I just want you to let it be present for a moment. You got it? Okay. So just let yourself feel that for a moment. That thing happened. I want you to just notice if you still have some emotions, if you could, uh, allow the emotions that kinda came up during that time period, what was happening. And I want you to notice where that lives in your body You might even be able to label what that emotion is And I just want you to notice it because we're gonna work with it today. So this thing happened maybe not to you, but it happened in consequence to putting yourself out there So we're gonna press hold on that. And I just wanna give you some context for what's actually happening when something doesn't work and you feel it the way that you just felt it. Okay? So something didn't work and you had a big reaction to it. Now, researchers recently published a study in 2026, so really recently actually in small business economics. So this is not a large study, but I thought it was really interesting, um, where they looked at different documented cases of entrepreneurs who experienced a significant public setback. A product collapsed, um, someone was removed from leadership, losing investor confidence. These are real visible, public stuff. And what they found was-- it wasn't about the severity of what happened, it was about the size of the fall. So what determined the outcome, whether someone came out stronger or whether someone fell apart. And in the end, what it was was about were they willing to actually feel and integrate what happened. So they identified three paths after a major setback. One was self-destruction, one was self-delusion, and one was self-recovery. And here's what I want you to hold onto as we go through today's episode, that these are not fixed outcomes. They are choices. And your body, and potentially even your brain, potentially has never known that it was a choice on how you respond to the things that happen. That, you know, you- when you have a shame dump after something happens, it doesn't feel like a choice, and I get that. But we are going to learn about the fact that they are choices, and they become more of a choice the more self-aware you are. So let's build some self-awareness today. And by building self-awareness today, we're beginning to build the t- the aspect of choice, okay? So here's what's actually happening in your nervous system when something doesn't work and the feeling hits, okay? We're gonna name that feeling for today, shame. Now, it can be other things, but shame is what happens most often. Um, we all experience it. Even when we don't name it that way, shame is not just an emotion, it's a n- it's a nervous system event. It, it collapses what psychologists call the window of tolerance. So that zone where you can think clearly, you can feel fully, and you can respond versus react, okay? But when shame gets activated, that window gets narrow fast. Which is why in the moment of a failure or setback, you often... You can't access what you know. You can't think straight. You can't remember your evidence. Like we're gonna say, "Oh, let, you know, just remember the evidence that, you know, you are okay, y- you are safe." Those things don't come forward. You can't find the perspective. It's so physical. I know you know what I'm saying. So here's what I really wanna name, because this is specific to us, to those of us building something in public. That entrepreneurial shame might be a little different than ordinary shame. It's different from the shame you feel in a private relationship or a personal failure that nobody has ever witnessed, okay? When you are building a business, you have put a version of yourself forward. You have said publicly on the internet, in front of an audience, "This is who I am. This is what I do. This is what I'm capable of." And you have attached your identity to something visible. And when that thing doesn't work, the threat isn't just, I failed. The threat becomes, people saw me fail. And that activates something deeper and different, I should say, in the nervous system than just a private failure does. It touches your social identity, your credibility, your sense of whether you belong in this space that you happen to be claiming, right? This is why so many of you have been working on your mindset, doing inner work, and still finding that shame hits just as hard, because you've been treating one wound, where you think it's failure, and a different wound is actually what's been activated. So it brings me to the most important thing that I wanna take from this episode, and that's that there are two distinct wounds that get activated when something in your business doesn't work, and most people never separate them. They just feel the whole thing as one overwhelming wave of just freaking awful. Oh my gosh, I have been there. Like, I have been there. I know you have too, where it literally... We're talking about, stuff goes down, you feel terrible, but you also feel the dread that comes up with being seen in your imperfection So they're different, and they live in different places, and they require different healing. So the first wound is failure itself. This is like internal, it lives in your self-concept, the story you hold about you and your worth, so that is failure itself, and it usually hits a worthy wound, clearly a good enough wound, certainly, lovability as well. But it sounds like I got it wrong. I'm not capable enough. I don't have what it takes. I mean, how many times in your business, if you are an entrepreneur, and you can really put this out towards anything that you're putting yourself out there and doing, is do I have what it takes, Am I really made for this? That's a very common question. Am I made for this? Yeah, maybe I was just fooling myself this whole time, right? I mean, oh my gosh, it is a total collapse inward. And the healing path for this wound is about your relationship to yourself, to whether a mistake is evidence of your limitation, or is it just data on the path of becoming someone who does this well eventually, right? Like, oh, this is just information for me to learn. It's one or the other. But the second wound is the public witness. This one is relational. It lives in the social nervous system, okay? The part of you that needs to belong, the part of you that, needs to be credible, to be seen as somebody who has it together. It sounds like people saw me fail. My reputation is done. They're going to judge me. They're gonna pull away from me. They're gonna reassess whether they should even trust me. And the healing pathway for this wound is entirely different. It's about your relationship to being seen, to your public, uh, identity. For your visibility to whether your sense of self can survive being witnessed in your total imperfection. And that's a totally different wound And again, I just wanna remind you, depending on the level of vulnerability you have with this, it can take something really small to set this off. This wound is such that you could make a silly mistake trying to do something out in the world, maybe a whole, that, you're putting together a program, or you're doing something out in the world, and you screw it up a little bit, right? It's still decent, but you screw it up and, and I have seen, and I have known myself as well, what it's like to go on a shame spiral that doesn't quite make sense to the size of the mistake doesn't make sense for the size of the reaction. And I think when we are looking at the second wound, I think it really, that's why I think that wound tends to have... can have a really... I mean, they both can have a really big reaction. But here's what I want you to understand about why this distinction matters so much. So when you conflate these two wounds, when you treat them as one thing, I do believe that, you know, your healing stalls, it stays trapped. You can do years of self-belief work and still tr- feel, like, destroyed every time something is visible and doesn't land, right? Because the visibility wound has still been untouched. Or you can work deeply on your relationship to being seen and still feel in your private moments like you fundamentally do not have what it takes. Because the competence wound, right, the good enough wound is still running, and the failure hasn't really been processed because you've been working on the visibility piece. It-- So they're different. Does that make sense? So they need different attention, and knowing which one is louder for you right now is the beginning of knowing what the work actually is. So I want you to think about that experience that we called up earlier. I want you to bring it back up, the one that's still probably a little present in your body. I want you to take another deep breath, call yourself back in again, and lean back into that particular challenge that was so hard. I'm going to ask you a question, and I want you to still allow yourself based on this experience, think back about it, what it was like, what it feels like in your body. It can even name the emotion again. I want you to ask yourself, which of these two wounds does it touch the most? Is it the internal collapse, something about your own ability and your worthiness, you know, whether you have what it takes? Or was it the visibility wound, the fact that people saw it, that your public identity took a hit, that you were worried about, "Oh my God, what does everybody think about me right now? Like, what does this look like?" And I just wanna say that no one might have even seen it, but that doesn't change the shame response, 'cause it really isn't about reality of what's happening outside of you. So hold that. So now if you can get some clarity here and say, okay, so maybe it was both, that's okay. But you wanna look at which one felt the strongest, and just let that hit you. Just let it come, and recognize that that's the top wound. And acknowledging that is the first step in being able to move forward and heal it. So being able to recognize it is what's most important here, 'cause that's how you become free. That's how you free it, right? So now we need to talk about what are you doing and what kind of red flags can you see when you-- this wound gets hit, because here's the thing: when shame activates and that window of tolerance that we talked about narrows, you don't get to choose from your full range of responses, right? You don't... You go to the ones you've always gone to, the one that was built a long time ago, probably before you were ever, you know, working, running a business or anything like that, to protect you from exactly this kind of pain. Imagine that there are no such things as character flaws, okay? These patterns are not character flaws. I wanna be really clear about that, that they are intelligence. They developed for good reasons. They protected you when you needed protecting, and the work is not to shame yourself for having them. It is to see them clearly enough to see the role they're playing, that you get to choose something different, because what was once brilliant no longer works. So some possible reactions, again, not responses. These are reactivity. Let's talk about what gets activated when things go wrong. So I'm just gonna name a few that are common for you to be like, "Yeah, that's me." So the first is the freeze activation, and this one, it goes quiet. You stop creating, you stop posting, you stop reaching out, and you wait, sometimes for days, sometimes for weeks, maybe it's months, for the feeling to pass before you can do anything. And from the outside, it can look like rest, or you can even say, I just need to take space." And from the inside, it often feels like you're stuck, you cannot move forward. Like you know you should move, but you just simply can't. If this is yours, you probably have a pattern of disappearing after setbacks and then coming back as if nothing happened, right? Because by the time you come back, you've buried that shit so far down that Rather than moving through it and processing it and learning from it, right? You've just buried it. And very similarly, another activation here can be similar to the freeze with a little bit more activity internally. So this is just-- you just hide. Okay? It's very similar to the freeze, but you are more intentional. So when you freeze-- when you're frozen, you're almost just in such a steep avoidance mode, you're almost fooling yourself. When you hide, it's more intentional. You know, this one you're actively pulling back from visibility. You're doing the same things, right? Becoming hard to reach, getting off social media. You might be canceling things. The hide is the response of someone whose primary wound is the public witness wound, and the answer to, "People saw me fail." My answer to, "People saw me fail", is to make sure people can't see you at all, like, you're just gonna hide for a while. And until it feels safer, the problem is that the window of safe enough to be visible again keeps shrinking the longer the pattern runs. So you start really not allowing yourself out of hiding. It's almost like I'm intentionally doing this. I know that I'm doing this, and the longer I do this as an activity, the more difficult it is to ever come back. Where freeze, almost like a switch goes off, and there's just a day you're like, "Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go back and start reading my emails again. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. That feels good. Do I need to explain it? Nah, never mind. I'm just gonna go forward," right? The hide is, is much more. You're more present for it, okay? And the pattern can just keep running and running, and you can get yourself to the point where you can't get out of hiding. So the push through activation is the next one. This is where you are somebody who does the opposite, okay? You override the feeling entirely with action, okay? This is like your addiction is probably busy. You go ahead and you throw yourself into a launch of something else. You hustle harder, you pitch more, you fill the calendar. You know, the push through is often praised in entrepreneurial culture because it looks like resilience, right? But here's what I want you to understand. Moving fast is not the same as moving forward, and if you are pushing through without processing what happened, you are carrying the unmetabolized wound into your next effort, and it will surface again, and usually louder and louder and louder. People who run away by pushing through skip the lesson, and they're probably moving toward a misaligned action or goal because they're throwing themselves in, 'cause they're actually running away from something, not usually towards something. So usually when that dynamic's in play, right, I'm running away from something out of fear, I gotta prove to everybody that I'm better than that, then that energy is not based on excitement and joy and alignment. So this gets dangerous because it ends up like we're shiny object syndrome, and we're, like, creating all this stuff that isn't even really, getting us where we wanna truly go and then the another thing I wanna point out is just the activation of our perfectionism, right? Like, where we literally spiral. And this one decides that failure happened because you or, or what you put out wasn't good enough So perfectionism is the competent wound favorite coping strategy, the good enough wound. So if I can make it good enough, I'll be safe from the shame of it not working. The problem is, as you know, good enough is a moving target. There really is no good enough when you're working from a wound. And you're trying to, and you're trying to control... And when you're doing this, okay, and I want you to hear this too. When you're working, when you notice, like, I'm in a perfectionism spiral, like my response to that thing getting F'd up is to dive into a rabbit hole, spend all my time trying to get new courses, new things, right? Learn more, um, and then you get into this spiral of like, nothing is good enough after this, right? I can't get anything to be good enough. You're trying to control the outcome, and that's not your work. That's not what you're here to do. That is the wound. That is not your soul. What you are here to do from a soul st-stance is to learn how to navigate the unknown. And so really, it's to learn to surrender and to let go and then move forward into the unknown. And perfectionism spiraling doesn't allow that. I wanna highlight this last one, because when something fails or goes wrong, those of us that already have the tendency to be, "Oh, I'm an over..." Usually, you're an overgiver. But in this case, you t- you're over responsible for everybody's emotions. You caretake, right? If you're have somebody with that over responsibility activation, you feel overly responsible for other people's experiences. Obviously, we wanna have integrity in our work. This is not that. This is feeling fear of disappointing others and letting people down. So if it feels unsafe to show up with what you are offering right? To invite others to pay you for your next offer, right? To put something out again and invite others to come in and, and pay you for this. When that thing went wrong, this gets triggered even more fiercely, and we begin to shut down around sales, sharing our content, putting it out there out of fear of not being good enough and that others are gonna be dissatisfied with me. And so we, we really shut down and get small for that reason, because that over-responsibility gets activated in us, that, that way that we cope. It's really important that you acknowledge that because you have to stand fully embodying, fully the trust and belief you have in yourself when you put yourself out into the world and you invite other people in, and particularly if you're asking for them to pay you. And so this gets really messy and muddy when we're out there trying to get back on our feet. And if you're particularly over responsible, it's difficult. So most of you will recognize yourself in more than one of these, okay? Many of us have a primary pattern, a secondary one that kinda shows up. So I wanna just let your, let you just kinda see where you fall in all of this. Like what felt familiar for you, what you were like, "That's me." And what matters is that you can see it, because what you can see, you can begin to work with. And so just allow yourself to recognize the hope and the possibility that simply by hearing this today, you're gonna start seeing it, and that by seeing it, you can start to come show up with compassion, and you can start to show up with awareness. Oh, that's what this is. This is happening right now. Oh, that's my over-responsibility wound, right? Oh, that's my imposter syndrome that's making me try to keep me in charge, is trying to keep me in place. I, I just recognize that. It starts to separate you from the reaction you're having and allows you to give you some language for it, which is actually very important. So here's what you have right now that you didn't have when you pressed play. You have a name for what happens in your body when something doesn't work. You have a map of two different wounds that entrepreneurial setbacks tend to activate, right? And if you let yourself receive it, you have a sense of which one runs louder for you. You have a name for the pattern you run under pressure, so those patterns, those activations, and you have the beginning of an understanding that none of this is random, none of it is evidence of your unworthiness, and none of it is permanent. This is not small. Those people spend years, sometimes decades, cycling through this stuff, you guys, seriously. Some people, I mean, we have the same responses to setbacks over and over and over again, many of us, without being able to see clearly enough to do anything differently. So you have a map, and a map changes everything, okay? It just allows you to the language, the identification, and the ability to separate from it, look at it, and name it, and that is not small. So because here's what I want you to understand. Naming your pattern is the first act of resilience, not the pushing through, not the fast pivot, not the pretending it didn't hit you and just, like, numbing out and freezing up. The willingness to look clearly at what actually happens inside of you when things are hard, that's where the real work begins, and that's where we see real resilience, just like in that study that we talked about in the beginning, right? Those resiliency factor had to do whether or not they showed up and processed it. That was a, that was the massive factor. So in part two of this series, we are going to now take everything you just uncovered, and we're gonna build upon it. We're gonna talk about what it actually means to be resilient at the identity level, not just behaviorally, not just strategically, but in your bones. We're gonna talk about the activators that come for all of us in this work and why they're not obstacles, but they're curriculum. And we're gonna talk about the differences between recovering and actually rising, because that's what I want for you. In the beginning, sometimes we have to just recover when we're in the process of healing this stuff, but we get to the point, and I've dabbled in this myself, and it's blissful, people, I'm telling you, it's blissful, is when you can trip up and not to just, you don't just recover, but you actually have a sense of rising. You have a sense of ownership like, "This was actually awesome, and I understand why. This was fantastic. This is exactly what needed to happen." And yes, I'm telling you honestly, you can have a reaction like that. It takes a little bit of time, but you get faster and faster at it. So part two is called How to Rise and Who You Become in the Process. It drops next week. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss it. And if this episode landed for you and if something shifted, if you recognized yourself, if, one of these wounds distinctions hit somewhere real, I want to hear about it. So shoot me a DM. You can shoot me an email. You can tell me, um, which one is louder, what pattern you recognize. I'd love to hear about it. That conversation matters to me and helps me know what to keep building for you. So I will see you in part two. Have a beautiful rest of your week. Bye for now.